How To Win The S2000 Craigslist Scam Lawsuit - Video

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
03/21/2016 at 09:15 • Filed to: None

I had a lot of people asking me what I would do if I was involved with the S2000 situation that Jason wrote about on Friday. So, I made a video.

I am not in CA so I really can’t represent the guy in the story who was ripped off - but what happened to him is so common that I know what I would do if I was involved. And since these kinds of stories are so common, I thought it would be a good exercise to do this.

First, read !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Then, here is what I’d do. Call the police in CA and report the stolen parts from the car my client owned. Then, I’d sue the seller (slam dunk on several causes of action) and the auto shop which may or may not have been involved (the car was in their custody when the parts were stolen from it).

That’s a summary: I explain it all in the video.

It is my hope that someone will help this guy out and, as I note in the video: I’d be happy to help out with advice if anyone wants it. Hey, it’s FREE! As is the video:

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

DISCUSSION (100)

. . > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 09:22

Great podcast as always. Your channel is quickly becoming one of my favourites on Youtube. Thanks for all your great content!

SteveLehto > . .
03/21/2016 at 09:33

Thanks! I usually put up just one a week but I may do a second. I didn’t want to wait too long to put this one up.

McMike > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 09:40

Besides shipping the parts to NY, I would also want him to pay the labor to have the aftermarket coilovers put back in.

Birddog > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 09:45

Excellent as always!

I love how genuinely excited you get at the prospect of someone taking this on.

. . > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 09:45

You won’t hear me complain about too many podcasts from you. As a law student they’re pretty fascinating to listen to.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 09:45

This is just delicious. The seller doesn’t stand a chance.

Thanks for putting this together, Steve. And especially for pointing out that the car officially belongs to the buyer immediately upon the signing of the paperwork. That really helps to put things in perspective.

SteveLehto > Birddog
03/21/2016 at 09:46

Seriously. If this guy was in MICH I’d do it for free because it would be FUN to do!

Flavien Vidal > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 09:48

My sister-in-law is a Japanese citizen, living in Michigan... She bought a car 1 year ago when she arrived. I almost wish she got scammed. I would have sent her to you haha

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 10:38

^ This, sir, is why we love you ^

Well, that attitude plus all the fun and interesting stories, facts and experiences we get to hear about.

Mark Longoria > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 10:42

If only all states had triple damages plus attorney’s fees for theft.

I better check up to see if my state, Texas has that. It would be very interesting to see who, if anyone, would oppose that bill.

edit: according to the Texas theft liability act:

Sec. 134.005. RECOVERY. (a) In a suit under this chapter, a person who has sustained damages resulting from theft may recover:

(1) under Section 134.003 (a), from a person who commits theft, the amount of actual damages found by the trier of fact and, in addition to actual damages, damages awarded by the trier of fact in a sum not to exceed $1,000; or

(2) from a parent or other person who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of a child, for an action brought under Section 134.003 (b), the amount of actual damages found by the trier of fact, not to exceed $5,000.

(b) Each person who prevails in a suit under this chapter shall be awarded court costs and reasonable and necessary attorney’s fees.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 10:58

In a class that I took a few years ago, I had to interview a practicing attorney - as luck had it a friend of a friend was a personal injury lawyer who had a good deal of success going after corporate negligence. Anyway, he said that he attributed his success to a strong sense of empathy and very competitive nature.

Having read your stories, I’m inclined to believe that most attorneys who work for people as opposed for corporations kind of need the same attributes. Stay awesome.

J.Miguel > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 11:00

What happens in this out of state cases? Do you have to drive back and forth to that other state? Or only to the court dates?

Pixel > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 11:04

I had suspected that it counted as theft, given he’d already bought the car. Nice to see my supposition confirmed by a professional.

Thank you for your posts Steve, always interesting an educational. I just wish I could listen to your podcasts at work(darn you IT!).

SteveLehto > J.Miguel
03/21/2016 at 11:05

If it was handled in that state, you may get away with only having to show up for the trial itself. But 99% of all cases settle so -

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 12:31

Calling the police in NY is also worthwhile. It’s also interstate. Civil law, who cares, but criminally you can mop the floor with the seller, and I hope that’s how it works out.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
03/21/2016 at 12:39

I suspect the NY cops are going to shrug their collective shoulders. You bought in the car in a face-to-face transaction in California and the theft took place in California — just because you didn’t become aware of it until the car got to NY doesn’t make it a NY problem.

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > haveacarortwoorthree2
03/21/2016 at 12:56

I live in CA and mentally put myself in the buyer’s shoes and flipped the locations. My brain needs a new clutch. Regardless it’s interstate wire fraud. You’re right, they (NY cops) won’t do anything, but they will write it down. That matters.

It’s an easy case really. It seems like splitting hairs about a couple parts but it’s not the car he bought. If I Geo Metro showed up instead of a Honda it’s a bit more obvious, but it’s essentially what happened. It’d be thornier if the seller truly believed it had parts that it did not have and the fraud wasn’t deliberate, insterstate, and done in such a manner to make it super difficult to sue over, but in a way it’s a blessing. Mr Lehto might correct me, but it is to my understanding that the expense of dealing with this lawsuit and headache should be funded by the fraudulent seller. The buyer should end up with a free car and money for his time, travel, hotel, meals, expenses, legal costs, and headache.

Then, if he’s like me, he’ll travel back across the country to punch the guy’s wife in the face and burn his house down, but I digress.

DoYouEvenShift > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:24

Your the man Steve! Always look forward to your posts.

LionZoo > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:35

Your video takes me back to bar prep. In a good way (some of those bar prep videos were pretty entertaining).

Gideon33New > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:38

I’ve bought and sold a lot of cars on craigslist.

I always get a smile when I see how happy the buyers are over my obsessive nature on the vehicle.

You WILL know everything I know and be happy before you drive away. You WILL get every question answeres honestly and in more detail than you probably understand (sometimes non-car people buy cars from me, haha).

Heck, I won’t sell a car unless it comes with a tire plug kit, compressor, and a Haynes manual with my copious notes. I buy them for every vehicle so you might as well get them from me.

Mike > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:45

Great info! The main thing I take from this is that I've been saying your last name wrong in my head for years

Breasticles > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:46

“How to win...lawsuit”:

Have Hulk Hogan as your alter ego.

RideOrange > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:53

Good stuff Steve, interesting and informative, you da man.

XJDano > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:57

Well, if you won wouldn’t you get your attorney fees paid?

So it’d be a win win?

Like the lawyer ads that say if we don’t win we won’t charge you.

Dr_Watson > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 17:59

Glad to see my instincts were dead on. Pretty clear cut theft case.

TheChafing > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:00

This was great; I really enjoyed it.

As an idea for future podcasts, little case studies like this where you explain how a particular case is likely to go down would be super fascinating.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:03

Steve, I almost kinda resent how you're making me rethink my opinion on lawyers. Great work as always.

mtdrift > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:03

Oppo shoutout!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:08

I know it’s pronounced “Lay-tow” but I’ll always read it as “Lee-tow”.

rude80y > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:10

I’ve been listening to your podcast for a while now, and I must say: this is the first time I’ve heard / seen you be SUPER PISSED OFF.

Pissed off in a good way though, because you have all the prerequisit lawyer-knowledge and you have the passion and articulation to explain everything to laymen & women.

I wish I could star this article multiple times.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:11

Great video Steve. I’m always surprised what people think about “as is” as well.

Corollary to the timing of the transfer of ownership (which I think I would need to see the paperwork to determine exactly but probably happened as you describe): buyer should have insured the car immediately.

I wonder if you could haul the seller into court in NY since he knew he was selling to a NY individual? I haven’t looked at the NY long-arm statute in a while but I think it’s pretty broad. Looks like maybe, here’s a link:

http://www.kentlaw.edu/perritt/course…

ETA: I obviously wrote this before listening to the last couple of minutes of the podcast, where you talk about potentially bringing the seller into court in NY.

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:14

How not to win a sex tape lawsuit..

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/21/med…

limerockcodger > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:14

Oh, what a lovely exercise in logic and law!!!!

I do so hope some CA attorney will respond to your invocation.... what fun it would be to drag that SOB through the mud.

SteveLehto > XJDano
03/21/2016 at 18:16

Depends on which causes of action are available in CA. In Michigan, yes.

sklooner > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:16

It so neat and simple, but missing the visceral thrill of a beating with a sack of doorknobs

NOTOFTHISEARTH > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:21

“Free” legal advice

therealdealjohnnyscarecrow > Mark Longoria
03/21/2016 at 18:22

Multipliers don’t usually come under direct causes of action like this, they are usually found under a consumer protection statute, and yes, you selling a car to someone makes you liable under such statutes.

This is why Steve said multiple causes of action. Conversion, breach of contract, trespass to chattels, consumer protection, probably some federal commerce law regarding interstate trade, shipping laws. In a case like this the causes of action are endless.

Mike > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:24

Thanks Steve,

I found the concept of part theft after the vehicle was legally the buyer’s very helpful. Though obvious now, It had not occurred to me that a concept of “extra” parts not included in a “bill of sale” is nonsense as it could extend to the Motor or anything else on the car other than the frame.

That said, I would never trust a seller to ship a car to me. When I bought my 1969 Dodge Charger, I flew out to Houston, Texas, inspected the vehicle, and then actually towed it back to Los Angeles myself in a Penske Rental truck and trailer. It was not actually that expensive and only took 2 and a half days.

Thanks for helping the buyer out with some free legal advice, I hope he takes it.

ramajastang > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:26

Steve should pass the bar in all states. And then take all the cases. And be a giant legal conglomerate.

Mike D F > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:39

I’m guessing that having clearly worded documentation, while it may not prove anything legally, it might dissuade a shitty seller from trying to do something shitty. Or at least make them think twice about it, as they likely wouldn’t understand the laws as much as people who follow your podcasts.

Franz86 > Birddog
03/21/2016 at 18:41

Yea I love Steve’s enthusiasm when describing how screwed the scummy seller is by admitting via text message to taking the parts off.

StuntmanDan > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:41

I was very excited to see a new video up today. The more you do, the better! I don’t practice law, but I’ve grown up involved in it and I always look forward to hearing your podcasts every week. I usually listen on Soundcloud though. Watching you talk is a little awkward to me.

SteveLehto > StuntmanDan
03/21/2016 at 18:43

I didn’t put up the soundcloud yet. I will in a day or two. I just wanted to get something up sooner rather than later since time is of the essence on some of this.

Thanks for the note!

Krochus > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:52

Is this really the best place to garner advice on winning a lawsuit?

SteveLehto > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 18:54

Yes. Yes it is.

smalleyxb122 > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 18:56

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Answer: Don’t be the seller.

SteveLehto > smalleyxb122
03/21/2016 at 19:00

Concur. Although he could lessen the defeat by sending the parts now and hoping that is the end of it.

TractorPillow > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 19:06

Why not? Are you new here? Steve is an expert in his field and has taught Oppos SO much.

TractorPillow > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:11

My wife makes fun of me because I have memorized your intro and always say it when I’m listening.

Michael > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:11

Thanks for sharing this Steve. I love seeing your involvement with the community and I hope this video is sent to the owner.

SteveLehto > TractorPillow
03/21/2016 at 19:13

Once in a while I change a word or two. Then I feel bad and redo it.

feather-throttle-not-hair > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:18

This is awesome, I’m going to have to start listening to your podcast!

Krochus > TractorPillow
03/21/2016 at 19:20

This joke just blasted over your head faster than an f15

Michael > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 19:21

Absolutely.

SPNKiX > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:29

This case is so hilariously infuriating. The seller’s statements remind me of those people who post “I don’t own the copyright for this video, I am posting it for entertainment purposes only” on YouTube videos, as if it absolves them of anything. “I am committing this crime in good faith”, they may as well be saying.

SlowpokeTexas > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:30

Love your articles man, thanks!

istari > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:43

I’ve gotta ask, because you said it a few times.

Does the “handshake” have to be literal in order to form the contract, as you’ve described it? Or is that more of a metaphorical concept to describe the apparent concurrence in the arrangement?

TractorPillow > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 19:43

Oh. Hilarious.

wooley_bear > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:44

in addition to all of this, one thing I took away from this entire ordeal: if I ever buy a car out of state and am not planning on driving it back; to already have transportation setup, or worst case set it up while you’re there.

SwindonSwine > istari
03/21/2016 at 19:47

Handshake does not have to be literal, it is just a commonly accepted gesture of agreement of both parties.

Matthew Urso > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 19:47

as long as a sex tape or Apple aren’t involved, then yes

00GTSV10 > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:48

Very interesting. I don’t listen to you much but when I do it is always interesting. As a fellow Michigander if any of my car deals go south I will be giving you a call.

Matthew Urso > TractorPillow
03/21/2016 at 19:48

Kinja'd!!!

Matthew Urso > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:50

I hope we get a resolution to this... too many times we are teased with situations (i.e. the stroller dude that key’d some rando’s car) that offer us no pay off.

SteveLehto > istari
03/21/2016 at 19:54

Handshakes generally are handshakes but theoretically, anything that the two parties did that BOTH sides recognized at the time was concurrence would do it.

SteveLehto > 00GTSV10
03/21/2016 at 19:55

I consider it “Michiganian.” But it’s a minor quibble.

istari > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 19:55

Thanks! For your reply today, and for your reply on Torch’s piece Thursday.

SteveLehto > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 20:02

I posted the audio/podcast for those who are YouTube averse:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

SheepGoToHeaven > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 20:37

I really really really hope good comes out of this whole story and the guy gets his parts.

imgonnamakeyouloveme > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 20:45

Keyboards don’t even have an F15 key, smart guy. But seriously, most Jalops don’t associate this place with Gawker so that joke will probably go over everyone’s head. I didn’t get it until the Hulk Hogan pic was posted.

Hi there > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 21:14

I think that’s more correct, “gander” means to view. As a suffix it just doesn’t make a lick of sense :-/

Micro-dosing Gawker's Tears > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 21:19

“We have the paper here to prove....”

BruceS85 > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 21:39

Is there any evidence (Oppo, Jalop, social media, or any outlet at all) that the seller realizes he’s in hot water?

SteveLehto > BruceS85
03/21/2016 at 21:40

I haven’t seen anything but I only follow this site and its affiliates. (There might be more in the various Honda forums etc)

McMike > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 21:58

FYI, I posted this video in the middle of an message board legal argument , and it pretty much slowed the thread to a halt.

Nice work.

didyourlysaythat? > Krochus
03/21/2016 at 22:01

Hulk Hogan sold that car?

SteveLehto > McMike
03/21/2016 at 22:05

Thanks! (Although that means the argument will just move to the comments section under the video itself.)

1337 MR2 > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 22:08

Just wanted to say that I appreciate that you take the time to write up/record these kinds of things. Thank you!

AdjustableWrench > Hi there
03/21/2016 at 22:21

Maybe he’s a duck. We should burn him.

Matt Noble > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 22:22

What is the $$ amount that this becomes a felony? At least we know the seller has the money to pay off the damages/court fees/attorneys fees.

Teagul > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 23:10

You hear so many bad things about attorneys, but your doing the lords work sir. This is what justice is all about, your the real batman.

SteveLehto > Teagul
03/21/2016 at 23:14

Thanks. Glad to know that people appreciate it!

EricG > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 23:52

How to win your lawsuit. Hire Steve Lehto.

itsacon > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 23:55

I haven’t had to think about contract law in over 15 years since I took the bar, but it was satisfying to hear that my analysis was correct, that once the money changed hands, the car, as he saw it, belonged to the buyer. Of course, I forgot as much about the UCC as I could as quickly as I could as soon the bar was done...

mythrenegade > SteveLehto
03/21/2016 at 23:58

Steve Lehto - single handedly redeeming the occupation of attorney.

You, sir, rock.

RangerSmith > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 00:02

Yoopers and Trolls!

elRobRex > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 01:17

My girlfriend doesn’t give a shit about cars (she has other qualities though - beer geek, into nerdy movies, has woman parts, etc) - but she’s an attorney.

I played this, and she listened, and then asked me to replay things. She loves your podcast now.

Maybe I'll get her into cars next.

Prismatist > Krochus
03/22/2016 at 01:22

The easy way to determine that is to see if Steve Lehto is the one providing the advice. If he is, then yes, this is the best place.

Prismatist > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 01:23

Fantastic work, Steve. I hope the buyer posts a photo of the seller’s freshly removed balls when all is said and done.

D-Fizzle > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S
03/22/2016 at 07:27

Many vehicle insurance providers give you a grace period of a few days from when you purchase a car to when you officially add it to your insured list and start paying premiums. At least that has been my experience. You are covered for this grace period through your policy for the other cars. The grace period is there so if for some reason you decide on a whim to go out and buy a car on Thanksgiving you are covered until their office opens on the following Monday.

Skippy the McWaffle > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 08:52

If it was me, I wouldn’t believe anything the seller says. Additionally, I’d stay with the car the whole time until it was shipped out. Take lots of pictures when it is loaded onto the trailer (or train, or plane or submarine, etc.) and verify everything on the car is still there when it arrives.

Might be more expensive to stay out there another day to ship the car, but it’s cali, go on a drive with your new ride!

BigBlock440 > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S
03/22/2016 at 09:08

Most insurances companies, maybe all of them, have a period where your new car purchases are insured on your current policy. I think at least 2 weeks.

jimz > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 09:13

I recommend you do one “Mad Libs” style.

Mr. Plastics powered by GreyGoose > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 09:19

You should send Doug DeMuro one of those microphones to replace his giant clip on mic. #SharingisCaring

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > D-Fizzle
03/22/2016 at 09:50

That assumes you had another car though (and the right insurance policy). When I moved to SF from NYC, I bought an S2K and had to have insurance before I drove it off the lot. Since then, I’ve always had car insurance, but several dealers have had my insurance company fax or email proof of coverage to them before they let me leave (presumably for their liability purposes).

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > BigBlock440
03/22/2016 at 09:51

As I said in reply to the other comment: that assumes you had another car though (and the right insurance policy). When I moved to SF from NYC, I bought an S2K and had to have insurance before I drove it off the lot. Since then, I’ve always had car insurance, but several dealers have had my insurance company fax or email proof of coverage to them before they let me leave (presumably for their liability purposes).

thesalad > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 09:54

Steve, you’re awesome.. If I lived in MI or knew anyone in MI i’d refer them to you in a heartbeat, always enjoy your podcasts and enjoyed this “special edition”

TheCraigy > SteveLehto
03/22/2016 at 10:00

Would there also be a contract of deposit with paragon? Perhaps not really worth asserting yet another cause of action....

BigBlock440 > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S
03/22/2016 at 10:26

I guess that’s an instance where it wouldn’t be. I’ve never not had a car since I turned 15, and can’t imagine ever doing so, so it’s an option that didn’t even cross my mind.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > McMike
03/22/2016 at 10:35

Holy balls, you’re McBanagon!??!?!

So much of life makes more sense now